VEDA: Do you feel like right now you are mostly doing one-off projects, or are you working consistently with the same artists? like, do you build lasting creative relationships with everybody you work with?

ASH: I think for producing I need to build relationships. I feel like it’s hard to work with people I don’t like, get along with, at least some amount. It’s such a personal thing–the songwriting and producing process, that if I wasn’t friends with people I just don’t think it would work.

VEDA: Really?

ASH: Yeah, yeah. I just think it wouldn’t work. Cause I've been in rooms where either I was there more as a beat maker or just like, producing people that I think I just didn’t appreciate as artists, and I feel like usually when I appreciate people as artists, I also appreciate them as people.

VEDA: Of course, especially if you're doing any type of creative project together, I feel that. Like, when I used to do more dance stuff, and I was starting a performance project– when I would work with like musicians, or I would work with like other dancers, I felt like there would have to be a certain level of understanding or a similar creative process, or else it just like doesn't fit. You sort of have to want to build a relationship to build work–that makes a lot of sense.

ASH: Yeah and I've worked on, like, a little bit of pitch stuff recently, which is kind of like a little soulless. I feel like.

VEDA: MM. What does that mean? Pitch music?

ASH: So the way a lot of pitch music works is that they give you a sheet, and the sheet says, like, “this is what we want it to sound like, we want this genre, we want it to sound similar to these five or six songs.” and I feel like a lot of times the people that put these things together are like, only kind of musicians. Sometimes the pitches will be like, “Oh, here's five songs.” And it's like, okay, these five songs have, like, barely anything in common. We have to figure out how to make a song that sounds like what we think they want, and then it’s gonna be pitched to an artist.

VEDA: huuuuuuuuh.

ASH: Yeah, It's really big in like k-pop, and like j-pop, and chinese pop–because they have such an industry around, like, training people–I don’t know how much you know about that, but yeah, even doing that where it's like, the music feels like, “okay, this is kind of stupid.” But doing it with people that I really like, as people, and as musicians, So then it's like, oh, we're still having fun and making stuff together.

VEDA: You’re like, “I hate this! But I like you!” That’s so funny.

ASH: Exactly! Like there's this one guy that I worked on a couple things with, that I met earlier this summer, like another producer–and in the first session, we just got together and I was like, “Oh, I have this pitch sheet,” and we were like, “alright, we're just gonna make this.” and at the end we were like, “Yeah, we definitely made something that isn’t the most original, but we both had fun, so we should work together more on things.”

VEDA: Wait, that's really good. That's a lovely feeling. Yeah, I get it. Okay, so how many relationships with artists do you have active right now?

ASH: Okay, so I guess it'll be easier if I name the people and then I’ll count, yeah. So I've been working with Frances Forever–forever,we went to school together, and so we're super tight. I feel like I don't work on all their music, but I feel like I hear almost all their music. Rex Laurent also, I think I've worked on, like, all of her stuff since she got–like she was in a kind of terrible 360 deal so I feel like I’ve worked on all her stuff since.

VEDA: I love her, by the way. I actually discovered her before I knew you worked on it and was listening to her before. Then I found out you were a part of it and I was like–wait, I’m a fan.

ASH: That's like, higher praise than, like–

VEDA: Really?

ASH: Yeah! Cause being like, “oh yeah. I like this.” when you know someone, then I feel like, you have different perspectives.

VEDA: No, I did not know you worked on stuff, and then I found out later, and I was like, very cool.

ASH: Okay so, Rex Laurent, and also Matilde Heckler, and Spit/Kiss, and I think that’s all I can think of as like the regular people, that I’m like really solid with. Yeah, I have a couple people that I'm like, starting to become friends with and like, maybe work on stuff with but it’s new.

VEDA: Yeah, that’s super cool, that makes sense. Okay fun question… Who are your biggest inspirations in what you do? Or, What is a song you wish you had made?--what are you like, “Oh, fuck. like, I wish I had done this.”

ASH: This is a great time for me to go off about my number one enemy. Dan Nigro. There's so many songs that he's produced that I'm like, wow, this is my favorite song ever, like So Hot You’re Hurting my Feelings, Good Luck, Babe!, UCLA by RL Grime, and so many more– and then every time I see him in an interview, I'm like… this guy looks like he smells bad. Yeah, so we have beef. It's super unfounded, but it started like two or three years ago, and I just decided that I had to double down.

VEDA: You know what? Fair, really fair.

ASH: I definitely went through a phase where I, like, really wanted to be Jack Antonoff, but I think he fell off.

VEDA: I feel like he's up to something.

ASH: It's not like he's bad at what he does or anything–but I think there was, like, there was a phase where I was listening to a lot of Bleachers, and when I was like, 16, I like, really loved the–-what was the Taylor Swift album? It's like 1989?

VEDA: I feel like I want to say, yes. I feel like it's definitely the first three numbers. 1986?

ASH: Yeah, 1989. I didn’t realize she dropped 1989 (Taylor's Version). That's crazy, Maybe I knew that already. I don’t know.

VEDA: Quick Taylor Swift intermission.

ASH: Yeah, Taylor. Anyway, I really loved that album when I was, like, in high school, yeah, and he did a lot of that. There might be other songs that I wish I made, like half of Melodrama, but if we need to be specific….. “The Louvre”, and I'm gonna say “Perfect Places”, but also, yeah, other ones, super good. Yeah.

VEDA: Do you have a song that you are like, the most proud to have worked on? Is that a hard question?

ASH: I think that's a hard question. I feel like I'm also in a phase where I feel like all the stuff that I've worked on, I'm, like, unhappy with now. Even stuff I worked on recently, which I think is good, I feel like especially since I've had access to the studio, and like all the people I've met through that, I feel like I've grown a lot in the last year, more so than, like a lot of other periods since I've been doing this. If I had to pick a song? Yeah, I think “paranoia party”, by Frances Forever I feel like even though I have some things I’m unhappy about now, the things that are cool about that song are really cool. And I think I was doing a lot of hyper pop stuff–well I'm sure people were doing it already, but before I had even heard of it.

VEDA: Yeah, you were like, oh, I figured out this thing, that's always cool. When you feel like you're, like, creating something new and not just doing what is expected, or like doing things you think people are going to enjoy, but instead you're like–oh, I enjoy this!

VEDA: Do you ever have moments of wishing to be accredited more publicly in the work that you do?

ASH: Ohhhhhh sometimes. I'll be like, well I did a lot of this so it would be nice to be recognized but also, I think being someone that, like walking outside and like being recognized would terrify me.

VEDA: It would freak you out?

ASH: Yeah, totally. So I would love to be in a spot where, like people who know know, but regular people don’t.

VEDA: If you know, you know.

ASH:

VEDA: That is an interesting moment.

ASH: Yeah but I was also just kind of like, “I don't really want to deal with someone after a show asking me to work on their music. So I'm actually really okay with this right now.” I'm gonna be quiet about this.

VEDA: It must be strange because you're still being approached, cause you’ve been on stage– it’s just not for the majority of the work you’ve done on the project in general. So that actually leads to my next question, I was gonna ask, as someone who goes on tour and plays in the bands of artists you produce for–what part of this work do you prefer? On stage or in the studio?

ASH: I think, I mean, I think overall I like producing a lot more. But they kind of go together a little bit. So like, sometimes when we are working in the studio you do all this work, right? and then it’s just like okay it’s done. Then getting to do the headline tour that we did was very validating and seeing how people connect with the music in person, as opposed to, like, you know, having numbers that say, “this many people listened to it, or this many people like it.” All the stuff on the internet doesn't feel real.

VEDA: And then when you have a crowd in front of you, you're like, “oh my god, people came here to, see us and see what we do!” that's a very powerful moment.

ASH: Especially, when sometimes, like, all the studio stuff, all the extra stuff that you have to do for releasing feels very grueling, seeing the joy it brings to people, makes it feel like it is all worth it.

VEDA: Totally, yeah, I think I would have a lot of stage fright.

ASH: I do too, well, every show I always have, like a base amount, but every tour we go on to, like the first, like, half a week to a week is always terrible.

VEDA: Do you ever feel kind of like a secret agent because you have produced so much of what you are playing, but then the crowd sees you just as the bass player or synth player or whatever?

ASH: I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think about it that much when we're on tour. Well, there was one time I did feel like I was a secret agent, actually. We were doing the music video shoot for “space girl”, and I was there as an extra, and I didn't really talk to anyone, y’know like everyone's working I’m just hanging out. I didn’t talk too much.And the director was like, “Oh, it'd be so cool if we could get this part of the song, slowed down for this shot. Does anyone have a laptop with like, Logic, or, like, Ableton or anything that could do this?” And I was like, “Oh I have a laptop here with that.” And she's like, “okay, cool. Do you know how to use it?” And I was like, “Yeah, I made the song.”

VEDA: Haha, was she a little bit embarrassed?

ASH: She was a little bit embarrassed but it was cool.

VEDA: You’re like this? This I did. I have it all here.

ASH: Yeah, hah, I was like, “we could do it without the vocals if you wanted to, like I got everything.”

VEDA: That’s very funny.

VEDA: Out of curiosity, do you still work on solo stuff right now actively?

ASH: A little bit, I think I like, went on, like a really long stretch of not working on solo stuff. But then earlier this year, there was like a song, where I was like oh I really need to write this song, and so I wrote the whole song. And usually in the past, when I worked on solo stuff, I did a lot of producing first, and then I wrote later. But for this one I actually, just like, wrote it all in words, and then filled out the rest.

VEDA: Do you consider yourself a lyric writer?

ASH: I don’t know, I don't really think about it too much. I feel like I've done a lot of poetry stuff in the past. So I feel like I definitely consider myself a writer.

VEDA: That counts.

ASH: That counts?

VEDA: Yeah totally, I think that lyrics are the best poetry. I’m a big contributor on Genius Lyrics.

ASH: Really?

VEDA: Yeah, I love it. If you see any @callyoutomorrow song bios, know that I'm typing it up in the background. I’ve been doing it since 2016. But it’s my most anonymous social media so I’m cutting this part out, it’s a secret.

ASH: It can’t be that much of a secret if the name is the same as your instagram.

VEDA: Yeah, but I think it’s spelled different like there’s no W on the end. Let's see.

(Veda checks phone to see genius lyrics username.)

VEDA: Oh, no, it's just the same. It's the same. I guess it's not anonymous at all. Nevermind. Anywayyysss, What are you listening to right now, off the top of your head?

ASH: Oh, the one thing I remember off the top of my head is I’ve been listening to the Abby Holliday album CRACK A SMILE COME ON STAY A WHILE. I’ve been listening to that a lot, I’ve been listening to just this one bladee song “WODRAINER”–

VEDA: Oh, I almost went to his show on Thursday. Did you go?

ASH: I never know these things. I try to stay off the internet. Then I miss stuff. Hmm, also listening to a lot of one of my friends, Grace Gardner, who I met while I was playing with Frances for their stuff. I’ve been listening to a lot of James Ivy who I used to listen to a lot, he makes kind of like alternative pop, indie, something, whatever. I listened to a lot of his music a year or two ago, and now I'm kind of having a resurgence.

VEDA: I don’t know most of these people so that’s sick. Okay this is an interesting thing I think about a lot–Do you have a song that you hope people hear in their heads when they think of you? Like what's your anthem or soundtrack?

ASH: Hmmmmm I don’t.

VEDA: I feel like this is a classic Veda question, so take your time, ponder over it.

ASH: Maybe I need a stronger sense of self.

VEDA: Ahahah, No, no, I feel like it's like, it's a hard question so I don't even know if I have an answer to this question. I feel like it changes week by week or person to person.

(When sent the interview transcript for approval, Ash followed up with: “upon pondering a bit ive decided that at least for the fall nostalgic wistful that tends to happen in october my pick for song right now is racetrack by carwash.”)